Elizabeth Brink, co-CEO, Gensler, In conversation with Clay Chandler, Fortune
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00:00I want to just talk a little bit about Gensler and your role a bit.
00:05This is a giant architectural practice.
00:10How do you lead a firm that is as big as 3,000 architects?
00:14How does it work?
00:15Actually, it's even more than that because we're not just architects, we're designers
00:19and strategists and planners and more than 6,000 people around, so it's even bigger than
00:25that.
00:27We really lead from a collaborative model.
00:30We lead through working together in teams.
00:36I'm based in Los Angeles, but we lead by having conversations and really knitting together.
00:42Every Monday, in fact, all of the leaders from around the globe get together on a call
00:47and share opportunities and share what's going on, so there's a lot of communication that
00:52goes on across the firm.
00:53Yeah, I can imagine.
00:56You have a co-CEO role, which is rather unusual for large organizations.
01:03Tell us a little bit about that and how that works in practice day to day.
01:09Being such a collaborative organization, the co-leadership model is really embedded in
01:14who we are.
01:15While there's co-CEO role, there's also co-roles at the regional level, at the office level.
01:22The idea is always that you learn so much through those strong partnerships with one
01:28another and really having someone to bounce ideas off of and lean on one another.
01:35It really comes from that sense of deep partnership.
01:41The other co-CEO, Jordan, is based in Washington, D.C., and you're in Los Angeles.
01:48The regional roles, how does that then translate?
01:51Well, again, Jordan Goldstein, who's my partner, who's fabulous, is based in D.C.
01:57I'm in Los Angeles.
02:00We just communicate all the time.
02:02We have our focus areas that we feel really passionate about, but then we communicate
02:09across those areas, too.
02:11Both of us are looking at the entire firm and looking globally and sharing with one
02:16another and then working with regional leaders across the business.
02:18I want to ask you a little bit about your background because it's very interesting.
02:21You're trained as an architect, but you're a strategist.
02:25What does that mean to be a design strategist?
02:28Right.
02:29Yeah.
02:30Trained as an architect.
02:31Prior to that, actually, I had a background in business and in marketing and communications.
02:39Strategy has really always been about connecting business with design and also with a people
02:44focus and looking from multiple lenses.
02:47It's really aligned with what our mission is, which is about enhancing the human experience
02:52and connecting with our clients and really solving our clients' problems.
02:57The strategy perspective brings that business side into all the conversations and makes
03:02sure that design is really focused on what the problems are that we need to be solving
03:07and works across design and business.
03:10That's great.
03:11You're in touch with what your clients' needs are and also you've got a very clear focus
03:18on what your clients' customers are looking at.
03:22Right.
03:23Exactly.
03:24Exactly.
03:25We're always looking one step further down the road and helping those clients understand
03:27what their customer needs are.
03:29The strategy piece is also very research focused.
03:32You mentioned our research.
03:33We have a really strong focus on research across the organization.
03:38Our strategy practice is a lot about not only doing the research, identifying the problems
03:43that need to be researched, but understanding how we can apply those in the design world.
03:49Let's talk about some of that research.
03:51Let's see if we can ... There we go.
03:55The design forecast, which is just out.
03:57You'll find a write up of it on fortune.com as well, so check that out.
04:02Let's take a look at ... Here's an overview of these five trends.
04:06You'll find more about that in this forecast, but let's maybe start with the first one.
04:11Can you maybe walk us through each one?
04:14Sure.
04:15I'll walk through each one.
04:16Just for a little context, the research that we do, the design forecast, we do every year.
04:22We really pull together some of our top thinkers from across the firm and across the globe
04:28and understand what they're seeing, what they think will be driving our clients, what they
04:32think will be driving our design moving forward to the coming year.
04:38We identified five this year, five for 25.
04:42These are the meta-trends.
04:44In the book, you'll also can see more detailed trends from the different practices.
04:49This first one is a really important trend that I think we're really seeing, again, across
04:53the world, which is that lifestyle districts are really driving cities.
05:00These are lifestyle districts that are experience-driven.
05:04If you keep going through the slides, I know we have a lot of images.
05:07Sure, yeah.
05:08We love images.
05:09Great, yeah.
05:10Yeah.
05:11These are districts in downtown areas that are not just a single use, but really driven,
05:15again, by creating spaces where communities can come together.
05:19This is in Nashville, where it's a mixed-use development that is centered on a performance
05:25space, a community performance space.
05:27If you keep going through, again, in Chicago, we see in a historic district, mixed-use spaces,
05:34office, residential, retail, really driven by that space down at the community level
05:40and the street level.
05:41We can keep going through.
05:43What's amazing is that kind of special experience at the top of that building is an incredible
05:48space that you can play basketball looking out over the city.
05:54Again, using the public realm to create these special experiences that really drive people
06:02to use the spaces and come back into our downtowns.
06:07This is, again, a theater, an opportunity where a mixed-use community is being driven
06:12by a theater space in Chicago, keep going, and a transit-oriented mixed-use community.
06:18They all look different.
06:19They can be at different scales, but what you're seeing is the office, the retail, the
06:23mixed-use, the community space anchored by, whether it's performance or sports or transit
06:29communities.
06:30You're giving people lots of touch points and reasons to come into the city.
06:33Lots of touch points and reasons to come into downtown areas.
06:37This next trend, mega trend, is about sustainable design.
06:41What we're really seeing about sustainable design is it's not just driven by what we
06:47should do for the environment.
06:48It's driven by value.
06:49With what we're seeing in terms of climate crisis and the impacts of the climate crisis
06:54that all cities are really dealing with, you start seeing that it creates a lot of value
07:01for our developers to actually incorporate these types of strategies.
07:05For example, Under Armour, they're a performance-driven organization.
07:10They're all about creating performance for their athletes.
07:15Their space, their building had to drive performance as well.
07:18They're using mass timber construction, really highly sustainable design.
07:23This should be getting completed this year, a really exciting project in Baltimore.
07:27That really underscores their brand values.
07:29The brand values and the value for them.
07:32Then depending on where you're building, if you're building out in untouched land, you
07:36really have to be especially careful.
07:38This is some of our hospitality work where sustainability, again, is driving that experience.
07:43People don't want to be in a building that is destroying the environment.
07:48They want to be in a space and a place that enhances.
07:50It's so great.
07:51It looks like a campsite.
07:52Yeah.
07:53We'll take you there.
07:54Yeah.
07:55Fantastic.
07:56Okay.
07:57Third?
07:58Third trend, we hear all about conversion, especially office-to-residential conversion
08:04as a potential opportunity to do something with some of these vacant office buildings.
08:10This, for example, is an incredible office-to-residential conversion in New York.
08:15What we're seeing is this year, coming in 2025, this is really going to take off.
08:20Now that there's been a lot of studies going on, people have really figured out how to
08:24make that happen, and the building discount has come down enough, that it's going to start
08:29penciling out.
08:30We're also seeing more cities really driving some of that.
08:34That's interesting because there's been a lot of skepticism about whether conversion
08:37could actually work, but it seems like people are starting to figure that out.
08:41It doesn't work for every building.
08:42We've done a calculator, a whole algorithm that looks at the buildings and sees what
08:48can make sense, but there's also financial incentives that more cities are getting involved
08:53with.
08:54These two, the last two-
08:55Those two were some beautiful office-to-residential market rate housing, and then we see some
09:01other.
09:02There's also conversion that's going on beyond just the office-to-residential.
09:06For example, this was a factory that was converted to a public library in Texas by utilizing
09:13that space in a new kind of way.
09:15I think the next slide shows something we're seeing a lot of, which is big-box retail being
09:20converted into other spaces.
09:21You have these volumes.
09:23This is converted into an office space, utilizing that kind of volume, so you have retail-to-office
09:31going on to create these kinds of spaces.
09:34It's wonderful how open that kind of lends itself.
09:38Then, again, this is warehouse.
09:41This is a freight terminal in New York City that's converted into a Google space just
09:47recently, a really unbelievable space that's bringing what we're talking about, sustainability,
09:53a regenerative spirit into not only a conversion, but into an urban redevelopment area.
10:02Fourth trend that we have for 2025 is about housing.
10:06We know all of our cities are really challenged with housing at every level.
10:12What we're really seeing is a push towards not just market rate, not just affordable,
10:19but also attainable housing, which is that magic middle where it's market rate, but we
10:25can innovate in how we construct these spaces that allows them to have more attainable pricing,
10:31and yet also have a really inclusive community environment and places that people want to
10:38be living.
10:39Then, in the next slide, too, you can see there's a lot of innovation going on in terms
10:45of the models for more affordable housing, too, where maybe there's co-living models,
10:50where there are small private spaces, and then some of the shared amenities, the kitchens,
10:54the living areas, the laundry facilities are more shared, which keeps the pricing down.
11:00There's a whole lot that's going on where the innovation is now starting to get fulfilled.
11:05All right, and lastly, I know so many people are thinking about workplace, and we really
11:13see the workplace of the future is here.
11:15It has arrived.
11:16We've been talking about it for a long time, but we're really seeing that it's now getting
11:20embedded in the people.
11:22Those are the spaces that people are going to.
11:25Those are the spaces that have people in them, and they're willing to come into and wanting
11:30to come into and do their work.
11:31Yeah, that's an interesting point.
11:33You said something about that the other day that really stuck with me, that it's not just
11:37that people are coming in because there are good restaurants and cafes and attractions
11:41and that sort of thing, but it's also that they are persuaded that they can actually
11:46get more done in these spaces than they can just sitting at home.
11:50Yeah.
11:51Well, the mix of what's now in these workspaces, so you have private spaces, you have collaborative
11:58spaces, you have creative spaces, you have technology that's embedded, so there's a whole
12:02mix of spaces that really allows people to get their work done and also helps them feel
12:08more connected to their colleagues, but also their company.
12:14We see such ... We're hearing a lot about the epidemic of loneliness, where people are
12:18feeling disconnected, and when you come into these spaces to work, you're also feeling
12:24connected with your colleagues.
12:26So what are we looking at here?
12:27This is a beautiful space for Edelman in London, again, a creative company, and so their space
12:33needed to really help people connect with their creativity and inspire them to be more
12:38creative.
12:39Sitting at home is not always the most inspiring place to be super creative, to think outside
12:46the box when you're worried about the laundry or a delivery coming, so yeah, that's a beautiful
12:52space.
12:53This is the inside of that Google space at St. John's Terminal, and again, you can see
12:58it's not only a really flexible team area for people to work in, but really a space
13:06that you'd want to be in.
13:09This next one is also at the Google St. John's, and you can see that access to outdoor space,
13:15we've been talking about it, and now you really see an example of that outdoor space being
13:21a key part of that workplace experience, and you see that, and you think, who lives
13:27in New York wouldn't want to come to work every day to be able to sit out in that kind
13:32of space with colleagues and get inspired and do their work?
13:36I also really love the regeneration story for the landscape in this project.
13:43And then this is a great technology client in Suzhou in China, but the spaces are also
13:51very local.
13:52What you see is no two spaces, no two workplaces are really looking the same.
13:57They're really having a local impact, a very distinct flavor, and that's what people really
14:02want.
14:03Even for a global company, they want to have a space that feels local, that feels unique,
14:08so that character really draws people in.
14:12And again, a space in Shanghai for CBRE, the digital impact, again, it's not just the screen,
14:19which they use in a really effective way with clients, but it's having that digital experience
14:25when you come in that you can't get at home, so you come in or you bring a client into
14:29this space, and it's a memorable experience, and that's what these workplaces are really
14:34providing.
14:35Fantastic.
14:36And the last one I have, of course, I need to end with an image of a Gensler space.
14:41This is our newly opened workplace in our San Francisco office, and what you see, again,
14:48is something really relevant, which is that workshop, that agile, flexible workshop-type
14:54space, which for a creative company like ours is really important, so we're seeing that
14:59a lot more as an element of workplaces.
15:02So again, you see this, why wouldn't you want to come in to any of the workplaces, and how
15:10could that not be more effective, for the most part, than working at home?
15:14So San Francisco's a really interesting locale to end on here, because it's had such problems
15:19with getting people to come in.
15:22Technology's so advanced now that people really can do a lot of their work from a remote location.
15:28The pandemic was really rough for San Francisco.
15:31I was just in New York a couple of weeks ago.
15:34Our offices are in the financial district, down on Fulton Street, and I was struck just
15:39walking around the waterfront that there are still so many vacant buildings.
15:45What are vacancy rates running right now in major cities in the U.S.?
15:49It's really varying, and I think we're seeing, I'll go back to Los Angeles, we actually see
15:55it neighborhood by neighborhood, where the vacancy downtown, vacancy is really high,
16:01because it's not a compelling area for people to come to, whereas you see in Century City
16:06or some other neighborhoods, the vacancy rate is actually quite low.
16:09You have Class A buildings that have amenities, where the spaces have been rebuilt.
16:14There have been investment by companies in those places, and people want to be going
16:19there.
16:20So it's a little bit neighborhood by neighborhood, and I think as we see more investment back
16:24into the spaces and places and the communities around that, it will be increasing.
16:31But yeah, I mean, I can't go through every city with a specific vacancy.
16:35But it's still really challenging for people, and I think as we see more organizations not
16:42only investing, but encouraging and realizing the value of people coming into the spaces
16:47and working together, we'll see that slowly shift.
16:49I think the interesting thing is that design really can have an impact there.
16:54In New York, I had a chance during our global forum to talk to Bjarke Ingels about this
16:59spiral building that he designed in New York.
17:03A lot of big companies have offices in there, but he said that the configuration, they did
17:07it mainly because of zoning rules and stuff to create more open space.
17:11But he said, for example, at HSBC, they had 14 levels, so a big chunk of the office tower.
17:17But he said that just the openness of that design was enough to double almost overnight
17:24the number of people that were coming into the office.
17:26We saw that in Los Angeles with our own space, too.
17:29We recently renovated one of the floors and had an incredible impact on...
17:35I'm not sure it was absolutely double, but it was close to, if not a third more, in terms
17:40of attendance and people coming in and using the space.
17:43Once you start also that virtuous cycle of people coming in and then the neighborhoods
17:49get back to be revitalized and the expectation from the team members is that you're coming
17:54in, I think design has a huge impact.
17:57It's...
17:58I think over half of the spaces in the US have not been renovated in the last 10 years.
18:04So...
18:05Workspaces.
18:06So it's a big opportunity and the renovated spaces, the updated spaces, are the ones people
18:12want to come back to.
18:13So let me ask you just a quick final question about AI, which we talked about last year
18:17in some length, but it's really taken off now in architecture.
18:21How is it changing the way that you work at Gensler?
18:25Yeah.
18:27We're really excited about leaning into AI.
18:30There's a lot to learn, but we are really leaning into that.
18:34We see it as a tool that is going to fundamentally allow us to have different conversations with
18:40our clients and have them earlier in the process so that by using some of the generative AI,
18:48we can create images that allow us to have richer conversations with our clients earlier
18:54in the process.
18:55So we're investing in that.
18:56We're helping our team members learn.
18:58We're really pushing that through the whole organization.
19:01And the other side of AI is more on the data side.
19:04So a lot of our clients have a lot of data and, again, as a research-driven organization
19:09and one where we're always bridging between our clients' information and our clients'
19:14needs and goals and design, the more we can bring that data in and utilize it in ways
19:20that allow us to have insights, that's where we're really starting to see that AI could
19:27also be useful.
19:28So it's going to transform how we use clients' information and data to help them make better
19:32decisions.
19:33That is fascinating.
19:34Well, I think you get a sense why I'm such a big fan of Gensler's research from this
19:40conversation.
19:41The thoughtful way in which they approach all these trends and the needs of their clients
19:45is really impressive to me.
19:46Again, I would just recommend that you pick up a copy of their design forecast.
19:51It's really packed with not only beautiful images, but very thought-provoking data and
19:57examples, and it's across a whole range of different industrial sectors.
20:01Yeah.
20:02It goes through all of our practices from the work sector, the lifestyle sector, cities
20:06and communities, health and sciences.
20:10So there's specific insights for all of those.
20:14And then the meta-trends really flow through all of them.
20:17You see they emerged out of all of those.
20:20Fantastic.
20:21Yeah.
20:22It really happens.
20:23Well, Elizabeth, thank you so much.
20:24Perfect kickoff to what's going to be a great day.
20:27And thank you for setting the agenda for us here this morning.
20:30Great.
20:31Thanks very much.
20:32Thank you so much.