• 3 weeks ago
What is going on with the Milwaukee Bucks to start the 2024-25 NBA regular season (and are they still a threat to Boston)? This was supposed to be the season that star Bucks forward Giannis Antetokounmpo and new(ish) arrival Damian Lillard learned to play together, that coach Doc Rivers got the team chemistry in order, and that Khris Middleton got back on the court with two healthy ankles.

But none of those things has happened yet, and after a 1-5 start and comments about trades leaving the mouth of the Greek Freak, the time to push the panic button is closer than ever. Should the Boston Celtics stop worrying about Milwaukee to focus on the rest of the East? Or can this team still be a threat to Boston come the 2025 NBA Playoffs?

To try to get a handle on what's behind the Bucks' rough start and how much fo a threat they might be this and in future seasons, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with Dalton Sell of Behind the Buck Pass and Hoops Habit to talk it over.

They also get into what's been going down elsewhere in the East, the Mexico City Game and NBA Expansion, and get caught up on the news. Check it out!


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Transcript
00:00Celtics Lab is brought to you by PrizePix and the Game Time app.
00:06Alrighty, welcome to the Celtics Lab podcast brought to you by PrizePix, the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the CMS Media Network,
00:12and by Game Time Tickets. Tickets lowest price guaranteed.
00:15What time is it? It's Game Time. I'm your host, Cameron Tepes-Bye.
00:18I'm joined by Alex Goldberg and Dr. Justin Quinn.
00:21We have a lot on our plate to talk about. The season is ripening.
00:25There's some moves, there's some intrigue, and there's some perhaps despair specifically in Cream City in Milwaukee.
00:33So to talk about what's going on with the Milwaukee Bucks, we're welcoming back onto the program our friend Dalton Sell from Behind the Buck and Hoop's Habit.
00:41Dalton, what's up?
00:43Not too much. Thank you guys for having me again. It's been a while.
00:46I think the last time we did this was sometime last year.
00:50I remember we did one after the Drew Holiday trade for sure.
00:53Oh, yeah. We'll probably get a retrospective on that, I suppose.
00:58But yeah, Dalton, you're here to help us look at what's going on in the Eastern Conference,
01:01but because the Bucks have been such a major player in the East for six or seven years now,
01:06we'll spend the lab portion of the programming talking mostly, if not exclusively, about the Bucks.
01:12Just quickly, Justin, how are things down in Mexico?
01:15Tell us about your experience at the Mexico City Games, and then I'll ask you to tell us a little bit more in a little bit.
01:24Well, they were pretty interesting in that they moved them forward.
01:29They're usually in the middle of December.
01:31It was kind of a nightmare in terms of trying to do coverage for that at the same time that the season was starting,
01:37because the coverage starts a few days ahead of the event,
01:40and as people start to arrive in the market and interview opportunities open up.
01:44So I had a chance to talk with Gaurav Dhrajic.
01:46I can tell you more about that in a little bit.
01:48And several other people had some interesting things to say about expansion in the future of the league.
01:53But the timing for Día de los Muertos in terms of it being like an artistic stroke of genius was amazing.
02:01Some of the stuff that they had in the arena, like these giant catrinas or like skeletons moving around during halftime,
02:07just really, really cool stuff.
02:09But it was also, you know, the beginning of the season, so very intense.
02:14Sure. And Alex, how are things in Brooklyn?
02:18No issues here in Brooklyn.
02:20It's finally starting to feel like fall, which of course means it will be 80 degrees tomorrow.
02:25Yeah, no, everything is fine.
02:28I understand you were in my neck of the woods this past weekend, Cam.
02:31I know we didn't get a chance to connect, but I hope you enjoyed the New York Marathon.
02:35Yes, I was in New York City for the New York Marathon, but Alex is in a band called Divine Sweater.
02:40They play our intro music and band practice comes first.
02:43Books before ball and bass before buddies, I guess.
02:46Dalton, before we get to the Bucks, what's your take on what's going on with the Sixers?
02:52Big deal, little deal, no deal that everyone's hurt and tensions are flaring.
02:56Well, it sounds like our team a little bit, you know, sounds like my team without the reporter shoving.
03:02But, you know, a lot of it's kind of similar issues, mostly health.
03:06They're a bit more banged up with their top two guys out.
03:09But, you know, it's a lot of the same thing.
03:12It's just health and things aren't really clicking as you would like to start.
03:16And there is some optimism there for both sides, mostly theirs,
03:20because it's their top two guys that things can start clicking a little bit more once they're healthy.
03:25And I think we're going to see that pretty soon because Paul George is coming back.
03:29And I don't know if the league is going to do anything about this Embiid situation,
03:32but he should be coming back sooner rather than later.
03:36But I think health has been a huge factor in their slow start and to a lesser degree Milwaukee's.
03:41Yeah, that's where the timestamp it's 5 p.m. on the East Coast.
03:45And Embiid hasn't received any suspension, if that's coming or fine, if that's coming.
03:52And reportedly he is on the road with the Sixers.
03:55So as of right now, we don't know if there's going to be punishment for what happened.
04:00We don't cover the Sixers and people who are close to the team and closer to that beat,
04:04including our guy Kai Carlin could give more texture and context there.
04:08So I don't think we need to spend too much time on that. But Justin, Alex, anything just about like the state of the Sixers?
04:14Yeah, I actually think I want to talk a little bit more because, you know,
04:18I think Joel Embiid and the kind of kerfuffle around this individual reporter is a smaller part of what I think is a bigger story that we probably don't have time to get into in this podcast.
04:32But, you know, I think when the Shams bomb dropped that Embiid shut the reporter,
04:40I was I was a little floored at first on digging kind of further into the context of why that happened,
04:47and specifically the article that this guy wrote and the fact that by all accounts,
04:51this reporter has made something of a habit of, you know, kind of writing some some less than friendly articles about Sixers and about, you know, other Philadelphia athletes in general.
05:05I think it kind of hints at a broader issue, which is that, you know, we're living in a time now where like it's kind of to some degree.
05:17It's been a really hard couple of years for journalists.
05:20And I want to recognize that, you know, like I think particularly there are things that are way bigger than basketball that are kind of in general making the press a more dangerous business.
05:32But this is a two way. This is also a two way street.
05:37And I think as much as things have escalated around that, there's also this kind of broader problem that I think is starting to manifest in a lot of different ways, particularly right now on this day and perhaps tomorrow.
05:54That, you know, I think journalists also need to do a better job of respecting professional ethics and not crossing personal boundaries.
06:07You don't talk about people's families in this language.
06:10Don't don't talk about people's families. Don't write about people's families unless it's like a glowing positive appraisal, which fine, whatever.
06:18Or the athlete on the other side agreed to talk about their family.
06:21Right. Yeah. If you want to write about like how Jason Tatum's mom was a big influence on him and, you know, all of that, that's great and all.
06:28But, you know, when you're making a negative commentary, first off, maybe think about like what's going into that commentary in the first place.
06:36And secondly, for the love of God, leave the guy's family out of it.
06:41I understand that like you don't want to, you know, physical violence against anyone is not OK.
06:48And physical violence against press members is certainly not OK in any context.
06:53But I think I think I do think like there is something to be said about the TMZ offication of all news in every context, everywhere.
07:06And the abandonment of traditional kind of scruples around reporting and writing.
07:13I think we are long overdue for a conversation, a much more complex and challenging conversation about kind of what is crossing the line from a journalistic standpoint.
07:27Look, Alex is just trolling me at this point.
07:31That started with we don't have time to get into this, but here's a three minute.
07:37Well, I know you would react to it too because we've had this conversation about five thousand times, Cam.
07:47Yeah, I'm just teasing you. I don't disagree at all. And just quickly, and then we can get off of it.
07:51Justin, you're an editor. How does writing like that get through?
07:56A bad editor, honestly, if he was self-editing, which, you know, I do sometimes for myself for important stuff, you should have done better.
08:04To his credit, he the person in question, reporter in question, I forgot his name.
08:10He basically made it clear that he overstepped the bounds.
08:14He immediately removed the stuff as he should have said he learned from the opportunity.
08:18It's more for his employers to decide whether knowledge of his past and his general conduct, whether or not that's an acceptable apology or not.
08:28But that's really crossing the line in ways that you should never do as a writer, as an editor, letting it see the light of day.
08:37Someone at some point should have stepped in and done something before it got to the point where there was a lot of confrontation about it.
08:44Yeah. OK, let's let's move on quickly just so we can do our due diligence.
08:51Lonnie Walker, the fourth, is playing in Lithuania for a team that has ties to KP's agent and brother, but then also has seen other NBA players come through like Ty Lawson, Emmanuel Mouya and others.
09:04Matt Ryan is going to play for the Knicks, formerly of the Maine Celtics, and maybe like the Boston Celtics for a minute, if memory serves, but maybe not even that.
09:13And Jason Tatum is perhaps going to be involved in a WNBA St. Louis bid, but no more on that right now.
09:20Justin, I'm going to ask you about Mexico City again, but just starting to bring you back into the fold here.
09:25Boston is on a pretty good opening tear.
09:28I know that you focus on what's happening with the Bucs, but what are your initial impressions of the Celtics here?
09:33Yeah, they look good, you know, as expected.
09:36They look like that well-oiled machine that pretty much brought everybody back from last year, but added that championship pedigree, you know, kind of like what I was seeing with the with the Bucs in 2022.
09:47You win a championship, things are kind of different, whether it's the way the league talks about you, whether it's the way players kind of carry themselves.
09:55But once you get that, you know, you have a certain type of confidence and they didn't really need any more because they were really good last year.
10:01But I'm just seeing a team that maintained everybody.
10:05There was no, you know, really big trade to shake things up or anything like that.
10:09No Marcus Smart for Porzingis deal.
10:11So they're pretty much doing what I expected.
10:14You know, I really enjoyed that game between the Bucs and the Celtics until late.
10:18You know, the Bucs put up a pretty good fight until about the final frame.
10:22So Boston's a good team.
10:24You know, I'm not surprised.
10:25They're very good.
10:26Did you happen to see the play between Grant Williams?
10:29I'm using air quotes on the word play here between Grant Williams and Jason Tatum.
10:33I did.
10:34Yes.
10:35Any thoughts?
10:36Just something you can't do.
10:38You know, that's always been as somebody who has despised Grant Williams from his days with the Celtics and doing similar things to Giannis or just antics with Giannis.
10:49We are starting to see how that pissed you off.
10:53Yeah.
10:54Yeah.
10:55You guys can see kind of through my lens now how it was for all those years when, you know, he's doing all this stuff to our guys.
11:00He's doing it to you guys now.
11:02And I feel like there's probably an added flavor there on his end to your end because he played there, you know.
11:08So, yeah, just a strange play.
11:11You know, it wasn't like hard to make that look like an accident when you just kind of level the guy like that.
11:17So, yeah, I was I definitely saw that.
11:21Honestly, big shout out to Jason Tatum, who took the fall like a professional, like he still managed to like land on his ass and slide the way you're supposed to.
11:29And then he also didn't really do or say anything.
11:32I mean, Jalen Brown came over and said a few words, but Jason Tatum, like physically and emotionally handled that surprisingly well.
11:40Grant Williams will not be getting invited to the Michael Rubin White Party this year.
11:44I feel fairly confident about that.
11:46It's a long season.
11:47You never know.
11:48But fair enough.
11:49All right.
11:50Let's do this.
11:51I'm going to pause the action, talk about our friends over at PrizePix.
11:54And Justin is going to tell us a little bit more about his experience with the NBA visiting Mexico City.
11:59And then Dalton, you're on the hook to tell us all about the Bucs.
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13:06All right, Justin.
13:07NBA was here in Mexico City.
13:10That dragic interview was pretty fun.
13:13We got to talk about how the presence of the Yugoslav and then later as it became the Adriatic League set the stage for him to even be interested in basketball in the first place, which was part of the reason why he was in Mexico City.
13:27Now he is retired from the game, as I think most of you know.
13:30He is serving as an ambassador for the game around the world, and that's why he was in Mexico City.
13:35He's helping out with youth events, trying to push the culture.
13:39It was a really good conversation.
13:40So check that out on Rookie Wire.
13:42That came out today.
13:43No, last night.
13:45I also talked with the head of NBA Mexico, Raul Zaraga, about the future of the G League in Mexico City and Mexico more generally.
13:54If you guys remember, there was some chatter about maybe expanding the G League into Mexico.
13:59There is no traction on it at present, but it is something they are still looking at.
14:03They are also thinking about maybe having more Mexico games outside of Mexico City in places like Oaxaca or maybe Monterey, which would be pretty cool because I've never been there, so that would be an excuse to go to the northern part of Mexico.
14:16Most people think of northern Mexico as all of Mexico.
14:20For example, my family came here for my wedding.
14:24They were very surprised it was not a desert Mexico City.
14:28So we would be very interested to see what a Monterey, Mexico game would be like.
14:34I also spoke to lots of the players, Wizards head coach Brian Keefe.
14:38Got a little bit of an update on poor Malcolm who is still working his way back from a tendon injury.
14:44I think that sounds painfully familiar, no pun intended.
14:48Not exactly what you want to hear about a former Celtic.
14:51And Silver gave an update on expansion.
14:53If you want to call, he gives each year an update.
14:56He drips, drips, drips, drips little bits of information.
14:59So far through a very smart question from the athletics Joe Varden, we have a pretty good idea, though he would not be on the record definitively saying there will be two teams for the upcoming round of expansion.
15:12And not much else has changed.
15:15They're just starting the process.
15:16So much like the Celtics are just starting to get involved in the sale process, they are just starting to think about the expansion process and haven't really even formally started it yet.
15:25Cool.
15:26Yeah, that tragic piece.
15:28Justin is not only a good and talented basketball writer, but a doctor of anthropology.
15:33So understanding how entire cultures revolve around basketball.
15:38No one's better than Justin at that.
15:40Dalton, if not Las Vegas and Seattle, which let's be real, where would you put an expansion team and why?
15:47Oh, boy.
15:51I feel like Kansas City would be kind of a good place just because they're trying to get like a WNBA team there.
15:55And I feel like that would that's just a place, you know, with the Royals and the Chiefs.
16:01You know, maybe you could slot an NBA team in there and be something different.
16:05You know, obviously, they're going to want Seattle and Las Vegas first.
16:08But Kansas City could be an interesting one.
16:11I'm actually brought up bringing the WNBA team to Mexico, too, which would be really, really cool.
16:16Wow, that's interesting because they're moving in Toronto.
16:19So why not all of North America?
16:22All right.
16:23I have probably all have a million things to say about that, but that's not really why you're here, Dalton.
16:28And in fact, you've been a patient.
16:29So let's get into it.
16:31The Celtics have had a very nice opening to the season.
16:35Other than an overtime loss to Indiana, they've been mostly cruising.
16:39I don't think the Jalen Brown injury is much to be concerned with.
16:43Whether or not they take care of business against the Hawks or even Golden State this week, the Celtics look fine.
16:48Unfortunately, Dalton, as we ready ourselves to get into the Celtics lab, I don't think the same could be said for your Milwaukee Bucks.
16:56For people who maybe are uninitiated, what's your summary of how the season has begun?
17:03Just a lot of issues, you know, not really how I envisioned it.
17:07But a lot of the struggles from last season have kind of just carried over into this season.
17:12You have Chris Middleton being hurt.
17:14That certainly hasn't helped.
17:16Giannis and Dame's chemistry hasn't looked the greatest, though it has been getting better game by game.
17:21Doc Rivers is still super iffy, whether you can kind of trust him or not.
17:26I will say he's getting better game by game.
17:28He is making adjustments that I have been calling for, one of which is to give more burn to the young guys.
17:36Starting the season, he gave Pat Connaughton and Bobby Portis a lot of minutes.
17:40And teams like Brooklyn and Chicago with these energetic athletic guards, Memphis too with John Morant and Scotty Pippen Jr.,
17:50they were just taking advantage of those guys because they don't have the burst or the speed to hang with them.
17:55So Bucks fans, you know, just pleading to get some youth and athleticism in there.
18:00And he has been doing that.
18:02And, you know, heartbreaking loss against Cleveland the other night.
18:05Donovan Mitchell sunk a mid-range game winner.
18:08Nice defense.
18:09Not much you can do there.
18:11So that was, I don't believe in moral victories, but that's the closest thing you could get to it.
18:15So starting to look better.
18:17Got a big game against Cleveland in a little bit here.
18:20It'll be interesting.
18:21But they got a lot of issues.
18:23They're working on them.
18:24And it's not perfect.
18:26But I see some reason for optimism at the very least.
18:31It'll be curious.
18:32And people will probably be listening to this after the Cavs play the Bucks.
18:36Those guards and the Cavs are the right profile player to give the Bucks problems.
18:41But I don't know who on the Cavs guards, to be honest.
18:44So they could kind of cut in any direction.
18:47Jonathan, we have like a bunch of different questions about the Bucks.
18:51And you can kind of tell us if they're valid questions and how worried Bucks fans ought to be.
18:56Justin's brought this up, so I'll start with this.
18:59And, Justin, if there's any more context to add, go for it.
19:02I've already talked about Damon Willard's defense.
19:05I don't think there's any surprises there.
19:07But the wing, defending the wing is kind of a problem for Milwaukee.
19:11And that's something that, Justin, I think you would say is perhaps unsustainable.
19:15Yeah, go for it, Justin.
19:17Just watching them play.
19:19When they played the Celtics, the snippets I've seen of them in some purely competitive games, they've lost.
19:24They look good, right?
19:26But then they just don't hold it together.
19:28They start to fall apart late.
19:30The shot selection is weird for both players.
19:34But one of the biggest things that stood out is they just don't have anyone stop anyone on the wing.
19:40Now, anyway, when Middleton returns, maybe that will be better.
19:44He's not exactly a lockdown defender, but he's a decent defender when he's healthy.
19:48The two guys I'm really looking at to kind of fill that void you're talking about, Torrey and Prince,
19:53he's been hot and cold to start the season.
19:55Shooting's been really good.
19:57Defense has been pretty solid.
19:59But in that Boston game that they played against you guys, Andre Jackson Jr. came in a little bit,
20:04defended Jalen Brown quite a bit.
20:06And, you know, he's a young guy.
20:08He's going to make a lot of mistakes.
20:10He's going to foul a lot.
20:13He knows he's out there to play defense, and he's the kind of guy that I want guarding the Jason Tatums
20:18and the Jalen Browns over somebody like Pat Connaughton, who when I see that matchup,
20:23I know how it's going to end.
20:25So I think that, yes, they do have those issues.
20:28Gary Trent is still kind of looking for his footing defensively.
20:31They're asking a lot of him.
20:33But the two guys you really got to depend on defensively on the wing are going to be Torrey and Prince
20:38and Andre Jackson Jr.
20:40I think Andre Jackson Jr.'s development is going to be maybe the biggest X factor of the season
20:45just because of how badly they need that wing defense against teams like Boston.
20:51So speaking about wing defense, you know, I think Torrey and Prince,
20:55a perfectly fine wing defender, seems like he's solid enough.
20:59I would be a little worried about him holding up over the course of, say,
21:03a seven-game series against some of the elite wings in the league.
21:07Obviously Giannis is, you know, an all-time great defender.
21:10Rick Lopez seems like he still has some tread in the tires as a rim protector at the very least.
21:15But, you know, to me what stands out is if the young guys don't pop and, you know,
21:22you see like, for example, the Bucs themselves are maybe not that optimistic about that
21:27with the declining Marjan Bochum's option and things like that.
21:32I guess I'm curious on your end, thinking about like, you know, the Bobby Portises
21:37and the Gary Trents and the Torrey and Princes, guys who are, you know,
21:42have shown something in the past but are definitely at a later stage in their careers.
21:48Who are the kind of targets that Bucs fans could potentially be looking at, say, come February?
21:56What do the options look like for shoring up that wing position for Milwaukee?
22:01Yeah, not many.
22:02With the synchrotapron restrictions, you can't aggregate salaries.
22:05The Bucs have a first-round pick and a second-round pick they can trade,
22:08and they're both like seven years down the line.
22:10So not a whole lot of assets, but you're going to be looking for pretty cheap guys.
22:16One guy I was keeping an eye on to start the season, he got like a DNP
22:19and then didn't really play a lot of minutes, was Keon Ellis.
22:22Keon Ellis, just a really young guy, athletic, lengthy, can shoot the ball,
22:27known for his defense, and with the Beauchamp rumors going around,
22:30that was a perfect swap for salary.
22:32Was really hoping something could, you know, maybe he'd stay out of that rotation.
22:36He has since come back into the rotation, so I don't think he's available,
22:40but the Clippers got a couple guys that I like, Derek Jones Jr., Chris Dunn,
22:45just young defensive guys who can switch and guard multiple positions.
22:51Like Derek Jones Jr., I don't know what's going to happen.
22:54You've got to wait until February to see where teams are at,
22:57but he's like a pipe dream target for me.
22:59We saw what he could do with Dallas last year.
23:01Was a really nice player, and him and Bobby Portis works financially,
23:06so if you, you know, feel like Portis, his issues carry on, and the Clippers,
23:11you know, I got Bobby Portis in a pick here.
23:14Maybe you could get something done.
23:15I don't know.
23:16I don't think anything's going to happen too soon.
23:18I don't think the Bucs are going to shake anything up
23:20outside of maybe a Bo Champ trade.
23:24So I think we all know what the nuclear option is here,
23:27and we'll end with that and like the permutations of how that finally gets put
23:32on the board, but until then, nominally the Bucs are a competitor
23:37at the top of the East with the Celtics.
23:40I guess, Dalton, I'll ask you.
23:42I mean, I know last year was such a disaster.
23:44Has there been a start this bad in the contention window that we've seen here?
23:50Not this bad.
23:52It's been many years since it was a one-in-five start,
23:55and it's such a weird start because even with like the roster flaws
24:00that they have, one-in-five is just crazy,
24:04and like a lot of the games weren't close aside from the game
24:07to Cleveland where Mitchell hit the game winner.
24:09He got blown out by Chicago.
24:11He got blown out by Brooklyn and Memphis,
24:13and those were teams you were expected to beat.
24:15Memphis was on the second night of a back-to-back and so banged up.
24:19So just a lot of those factors I mentioned earlier,
24:21I think they all kind of came together, and maybe guys weren't as prepared
24:25as they should have been coming into the season.
24:28You know, didn't play extended minutes in the preseason.
24:31Giannis and Dame didn't talk about or they talked about how they didn't really
24:34work out over the summer.
24:35They were just busy.
24:36I think that kind of hurt.
24:38Those two are still feeling each other out a little bit.
24:41Like Dame kind of needs the ball in his hands a little bit more,
24:45and people are begging for Giannis to play off-ball a little bit,
24:48and they're just not used to that because it's not the roles
24:51that they've been playing.
24:53Yeah, so I figured a slow start might be in the cards,
24:56but not this slow, certainly.
24:59Well, to that end, I know what the Middleton update is,
25:03but give our listeners the most recent because Middleton news.
25:08Like I was talking about with another Bucks writer earlier,
25:11you simply don't know.
25:12Doc Rivers said with two preseason games left,
25:15we're going to try to get him in both of these games maybe.
25:17And then it was, oh, we're going to try to get him for the opener.
25:20And then it was, we're going to try to get him ready for the next game.
25:23And it's just been that day after day after day.
25:26So there's no update.
25:27He's still recovering from the dual off-season ankle surgery.
25:31And the hope is that he can come back soon, you know,
25:33given that they were talking about him playing in the preseason.
25:36But at this point you ask Doc Rivers,
25:39he's not going to give you a clear answer and they're going to wait until
25:42he's healthy.
25:43He's been banged up a lot,
25:44a lot of injuries over the past couple of years and something like this,
25:47you definitely don't want him getting hurt.
25:49So I wish I could give you something.
25:51Speaking of Doc Rivers, you know,
25:54big reason that Doc was hired last year after Adrian Griffin's brief
25:58tenure with the Bucks was the idea that he would come in and stabilize the
26:02Bucks defense that he had been, you know, an experienced coach on that.
26:05And Philly, the Clippers,
26:07Boston all had elite defenses at various times under Doc Rivers tenure,
26:12even if that wasn't always the case.
26:14What have you seen from the defensive end from this team particularly?
26:19It seems like that's kind of where a lot of these issues have stemmed from.
26:24And what have you seen from the kind of coaching in particular?
26:29Yeah. Not that I'm a big Doc Rivers defender,
26:32but he hasn't really been given the greatest hand defensively since taking
26:36over. Like last year, Malik Beasley was his like primary wing defender.
26:40That certainly didn't pan out well,
26:42just not really a guy known for his defense and you're asking him to guard
26:46these top tier scorers. It just didn't really work out.
26:49This year, kind of the same thing.
26:51You're asking Gary Trent to do that and that's not really his thing.
26:55And you're asking Pat Connaughton to do that. As I've explained,
26:58that's horrible. So they're still working through the kinks defensively.
27:02I like Jackson in the rotation. I like that addition.
27:05I think it's going to help this team defensively.
27:07I think you're going to see him guarding more household names when you play
27:11Boston. Maybe he'll go at Jalen Brown, play Cleveland.
27:14He'll probably take on Donovan Mitchell some,
27:16but I think Rivers has kind of been his own worst enemy.
27:19And to start this season defensively a little bit,
27:22because against Memphis, you're playing against John Moran,
27:25Scottie Pippen Jr. Guys who are fast guys who likes to run and are athletic.
27:29And he's throwing a lineup on the floor that has Pat Connaughton,
27:33Bobby Portis and Brooke Lopez in it.
27:36Three guys who aren't fast and aren't athletic and can't really keep up in
27:41transition with guys like that. So you're just kind of asking to,
27:45you're asking for trouble. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
27:49Thankfully he's, as I've said, he's cut back on that.
27:51It seems he is learning from the mistakes that the team is going through,
27:55but it hasn't been good so far.
27:57Fast guards have been their biggest downfall guys like Kobe White,
28:01Cam Thomas. They're, they're hurting them a lot.
28:04And part of that is Delon Wright. I thought it was a big free agent pickup.
28:08Been pretty quiet on that side of the ball has the worst defended field goal
28:12percentage on the entire team. People are frying him.
28:15So I'm still waiting for him to kind of click.
28:17Cause I really liked that pickup because of the defense, but yeah,
28:21it just a lot of not cohesion so far with decision-making and just players
28:26showing up and maybe players are still getting used to the scheme.
28:29The injuries kind of limited people to get chemistry throughout camp in the
28:32preseason,
28:33but I still have hope they can find something on that side of the ball.
28:36So you mentioned Boston.
28:38I know you mentioned Boston.
28:40So let's do it now,
28:41whether it's the next time they play or if they play in the postseason,
28:44if you're Milwaukee,
28:45what do you think are the reasons for optimism or the pain points that you
28:49need to win a game or win four of them?
28:51The books seem to always get up when they play Boston, you know,
28:54they're not going to, they might not win every game,
28:56but it feels like even when they're in these ruts,
28:58dating back to last season,
28:59they had that really nice victory towards the end of the regular season
29:02where Giannis got hurt.
29:03They didn't win every game,
29:04but it feels like even when they're in these ruts dating back to last
29:07season,
29:08they had that really nice victory towards the end of the regular season
29:10where Giannis got hurt.
29:11They just seem to get up when Boston is there.
29:13The big thing is you just got to stay healthy.
29:15When that team has people healthy, they feel like they can beat anybody.
29:18They just haven't been healthy.
29:20That's been the big issue, but as like a roster standpoint,
29:23you still have Giannis, you know,
29:25Boston has Al Horford and a lot of good defensive guys who have put up
29:28some good performances against him, but you also have Dame.
29:32You're hopefully going to have Chris Middleton.
29:34And while Boston has a lot of good defenders,
29:36that's a lot of offensive firepower.
29:38Gary Trent Jr.
29:39Is in a big slump,
29:40but that's a guy who if you do have so much attention on those guys,
29:44he can shoot the lights out because he's going to have wide open looks.
29:47Brooke Lopez, same way.
29:49He's had another slow start to the season, but you have that.
29:52I think the big thing is you've got to get some help off the bench.
29:56If the bucks can just get something,
29:58they statistically have one of the worst benches in the league.
30:00Things would start clicking because they're starting five is very productive.
30:05Even without Middleton, it's really the bench that is hurting them.
30:08So I feel like when Middleton gets back, they can compete with anybody.
30:12They feel like they have one of the better starting fives in the NBA and they
30:16can beat anybody if they get some help from the bench.
30:19A lot of people are going to disagree.
30:21A lot of people are going to say, oh, Boston is by far the better team.
30:23And right now they are. They, they do defense, offense, shooting.
30:28They got it all.
30:29But I feel like as time goes on and the bucks maybe get healthier,
30:33we'll start to see a better version of them that is supposed to be this title
30:37contender that could compete with anybody. It's going to take time.
30:40Not ready right now.
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32:00Download game time today. What time is it? Game time.
32:04Yeah. The position I've taken before,
32:05and I would continue to try and emphasize is in a series between Milwaukee and
32:10Boston,
32:11Milwaukee probably does have the best player on the court and that usually
32:14goes pretty far in the NBA. Maybe not far enough,
32:16but when we saw Boston play Milwaukee to that end,
32:20despite literally what I just said,
32:23Boston blocked Giannis five, maybe six times at the rim,
32:26which was quite stellar,
32:28but they also really hunted Damian Lillard on defense.
32:31Are you seeing other teams go right at Lillard or was that unique to how
32:36Boston approached their game?
32:38No teams, teams do do that.
32:40They do go at Lillard a little bit as good of an offensive player he is.
32:43And as much as he can turn it on defensively,
32:46there've been a few plays this year where it's like, okay, that's, you know,
32:49you got to turn up the intensity a little bit.
32:51We haven't really seen the Damian Lillard that came out in the opener against
32:56Philadelphia. It looks really locked in defensively.
32:59It hasn't really come to play consistently.
33:01So that is certainly a worry that teams are going to try to go after him,
33:04especially with against Boston, you know, Jalen Brown,
33:07maybe he's looking for that switch to get Lillard on him or Tatum or even
33:11Holiday. Just people are going to be looking for him to get that.
33:14So it's certainly a worry, especially when he's, you know,
33:17having a tough shooting night as he has had here and there.
33:20So it's certainly a worry.
33:22It's okay.
33:23I'm also a short guy in my thirties and I can't stay in front of anyone when I
33:27play hoops. So I sympathize. So, well, okay.
33:32I'm going to now bring in the drama and the,
33:36the sharks are circling and all of that jazz.
33:38Anything about like the Bucs here now in this regular season that you think
33:42people ought to know before we, we talk about the drama.
33:47With all the Yonis stuff. I know that's what everybody loves talking about.
33:50Oh, Yonis is going to ask what we're about to do.
33:53Maybe I'll, maybe I'll hold off then.
33:54Maybe I'll hold off then until we're ready. Cause I don't have anything.
33:57You know, I, there's not much I can say. They're one in five.
34:00I can't really defend them too much.
34:02They got to show me something to play better. As I said,
34:05I've seen some positive signs,
34:06but I need to see it consistently and I need to see it on the,
34:10in the standings. So right now, no.
34:13Yeah. I bet you get this experience that people will call us homers or say
34:18that we're like uncritical of the team and no offense.
34:22Like sometimes your team is, well, Alex, it doesn't do this professionally.
34:25Just as a secondary thing that he does.
34:29He does, he does it as professionally as they come, but maybe not as often.
34:35But you know, you get called a Homer and look when the team's winning,
34:38you're just acknowledging the good. And when the team is not winning,
34:42I mean, I'm hearing you say like, look, there's nothing to defend here.
34:45They're one in five. You probably haven't covered a losing team in a while.
34:49How has that experience been?
34:53It's definitely been weird. You know,
34:54I will say the one thing I kind of learned throughout my writing and like
34:58fandom is just that you can't really get too high and you can't get too low.
35:02And I always look back to the championship year in 2021 during the regular
35:07season. I don't remember which order it came in,
35:09but I remember they won five games in a row and then they lost five games in a
35:13row. Like you, you can't get too high. You can't get too low.
35:17You just kind of have to move forward and hope you can eventually reach that
35:20goal. Cause you're going to have bad stretches.
35:22You're going to lose multiple games in a row.
35:24You might win multiple games in a row. What really you'd like to win more,
35:28certainly,
35:29but what really matters is what you're going to do in the playoffs and at the
35:32end of the season, you know, so just don't get too high.
35:35Don't get too low. It sucks being one in five. I'll tell you that.
35:38I would rather be six and O,
35:40but you're going to have these tough stretches,
35:43especially with all the issues they've had and just a lack of cohesion,
35:47but it feels like maybe they're trending in the right direction.
35:51Time will tell, I suppose. I'd say they are not,
35:54which I know a lot of teams are in the league or no offense,
35:56hoping that that's the case. And a Giannis trade does come about. Justin,
36:01you have a take that maybe it's not just Giannis. It's not just, you know,
36:06people on the trade machine that want to see this happen. Justin,
36:08what's your theory here?
36:11It's close to the conspiracy theory than theory because I have literally
36:15nothing to support it other than external observations,
36:18but I thought it might be interesting to run it by Dalton just because
36:23unlike the Cronkies, for example, they're not actively,
36:28visibly doing things to undermine their title contention.
36:32They're making questionable decisions and maybe minor cost saving moves,
36:37but nothing like the Cronkies. However,
36:41the number of bad moves and the unlikeliness,
36:45I think of them paying the tax long-term suggests to me that maybe they're
36:52just trying to kind of create the scenario where Giannis might say something
36:56like, if we don't win, you might have to trade me, which he just did.
37:01So that's really the only theory that I have is that maybe this isn't entirely
37:06accidental.
37:07Maybe they don't want to look at the bad guys and they want to get the maximum
37:10amount of return while he and Dane can still bring back large packages,
37:15presumably in any kind of trade.
37:18So maybe this is kind of just like priming the situation for a rebuild.
37:22Any thoughts on that?
37:24Well, actually, Dalton, can I just add a layer to that, which is,
37:27so the Red Sox owner, John Henry,
37:29I think is so vilified right now that the Red Sox might actually do something
37:35in free agency here. And I'm curious to Justin's point,
37:39do you think the Milwaukee Bucks ownership maybe is hoping Giannis blinks
37:43first? I'm just curious,
37:45what is their standing in Milwaukee and Wisconsin and do they have to worry
37:49about whether or not people like them?
37:51And so maybe they're treading lightly as a result.
37:55Yeah, I don't really buy into that just because like over the past few years,
38:00they've kind of gone all in and like they've made moves that they think are
38:05going to put them in that spot.
38:06Like they don't care what it's going to cost them or anything like that.
38:09But the moves really haven't worked out if they were more so like what the
38:14Brewers, I don't know how closely you guys follow like baseball.
38:17You were just talking about the Red Sox,
38:18but the Brewers owner just kind of has this like reputation for being cheap and
38:22not re-signing guys and low-balling guys.
38:25So they leave and stuff like that.
38:26If the Bucks were doing something like that,
38:28I could certainly see like if they let Brook Lopez walk last off season,
38:31I could see, you know, them being like, oh,
38:33well maybe this will be something to get Giannis to kind of set him off and
38:37something like that.
38:38So I don't necessarily buy into that just because constantly they have talked
38:42about and reiterated that we're willing to spend money.
38:45We're going to trade everything.
38:47They have two picks left entirely over the next seven years that they can
38:51trade. So they've just shown that they can go all in.
38:55Everybody's kind of talked about how that's always been the case and how it's
38:58going to be the case as long as Giannis is here.
39:00But yeah, I can't say I had thought about that too much.
39:03Perhaps that's my bias goggles, but.
39:05Well,
39:06I'm going to step in for you here Dalton and also pour a little cold water on
39:11this.
39:12I think the Bucks problem is much simpler and far less conspiratorial.
39:17You know,
39:18that it conspiracy theory of pushing Giannis out while also paying the second
39:23apron to me doesn't say it wasn't really hold water.
39:27The Bucks problem more than anything I think is that they haven't had a draft
39:32win since Giannis and Chris Middleton.
39:35If we're being completely brutally honest,
39:37you know,
39:39And I know that, you know, late picks,
39:41it's hard to necessarily nail those second round is always a little bit of a
39:45crapshoot, but you know, I'm Dalton,
39:47maybe you can enlighten me or educate me. But, you know, for me,
39:50I haven't seen the Bucks raft,
39:53a quality rotation player that is staying on their team for multiple years.
39:58Basically since they drafted Giannis and Chris Middleton, correct me,
40:03if I'm wrong,
40:04that's just a fundamentally unsustainable strategy for building a championship
40:08level roster. I mean, even if you look at the Celtics,
40:11like they've had their fair share of draft misses. Sure. Like they've,
40:14we've had, you know, the Carson Edwards and the, you know,
40:18RJ Hamptons and all of that stuff. Like they've, they've had plenty,
40:22but they've also had draft hits Sam Hauser as an undrafted free agent,
40:26Peyton Bridger,
40:27who looks like he might win six men of the year at the tear that he's going
40:31at, you know,
40:33Boston has had some draft wins to kind of restock the cupboard and the
40:38Bucks, as, as far as I look at that roster,
40:40they really just haven't had any draft wins in the past five or six years.
40:45Could you shed a little more light on that Dalton?
40:48I want to add something to that too, but real quick,
40:51what is the thinking when you need to win now to draft projects?
40:58To draft, I didn't hear you.
41:00To draft young, not ready to win now players.
41:04A couple of things. One, Alex,
41:05you were giving the Bucks a little too much credit there saying they drafted
41:08Middleton. They didn't even draft Middleton.
41:10He was a throw in from the Pistons who drafted him.
41:13But the one that comes to mind is Malcolm Brogdon in 2016.
41:17That was not his regimen, but you know,
41:20the one thing is they hit on the second rounder in that draft,
41:23which was Brogdon, but they missed on the first rounder,
41:25which was Don Maker, never panned out. But since 2017,
41:29they just have not had a good hit. Dante DiVincenzo flashed potential.
41:34He was not this player with the Bucks.
41:36The one that always haunts me is the DJ Wilson draft because they picked him
41:40ahead of Ananobi. I don't know if the top of my head,
41:44John Collins was in there, I believe, but just a lot of good players.
41:47They picked them over.
41:49And that's one of the reasons I'm fine with them always trading their picks is
41:52because this G or this regimen is just not good when it comes to draft picks.
41:56They really struggle with that.
41:59And to go off Justin's point about why are they drafting people all summer?
42:04I wrote about, and I talked about, I want Ryan Dunn.
42:07Ryan Dunn is a very good defender. He's exactly what they need right now.
42:11I do not care about the offensive concerns. You know,
42:14if he shoots bad from three, it's something he can work on.
42:18You need that type of defense.
42:20So when the Bucks are on the clock in the draft and Ryan Dunn is still on the
42:23board, I am thrilled. I said, this is a slam dunk.
42:27John Horst can get rid of this draft narrative that he can't draft.
42:31He's going to get the best defender in the draft on a team that needs defense.
42:35And he took a 19 year old that did not play last year who played very little
42:39overseas. Not happy in the moment.
42:41Some time has passed and I see the vision.
42:44Like I see the potential there because he's just so athletic and so fast and
42:49Dame's getting older.
42:50You can have this guy kind of learn from him and maybe take the reins,
42:53but he's just so young that it's a puzzling move to make with Giannis and
42:59stuff.
43:00When Ryan Dunn was on the board and it pains me to watch the Suns because he's
43:04good. He is a good rotational player right away.
43:07The three point concerns are gone. He's shooting like 40% from three.
43:11So a lot of puzzling draft moves.
43:14Bo champ just got his option declined a lot of potential there at the time.
43:18But yeah,
43:19it is one of the biggest reasons they are in this position and why every
43:24article and every time I go on a podcast,
43:26I preach the need for youth and athleticism because they just haven't been
43:29able to hit in the draft.
43:30So definitely coming back to haunt them compared to somebody like Boston,
43:34as you mentioned,
43:35who is getting help from guys like Hauser and Pritchard and stuff like that.
43:39So definitely stings.
43:42All right.
43:43So Dalton in a second,
43:45I'm going to have you look into the future.
43:47And in fact,
43:48I'm going to ask you questions about summer 2026.
43:51So get ready to look into your crystal ball.
43:54But first I'm going to do a little bit of post-roll.
43:56We've been talking to Dalton sell from behind the buck and hoops habit.
43:59This episode of the podcast brought to you by price picks.
44:01This is a fantasy basketball partner of the CLNS media network.
44:04And by game time tickets,
44:05less than a ticket's lowest price guaranteed.
44:07Go check out Dr.
44:08Justin Quinn's story with Goran Dragic on rookie wire.
44:11Go check out divine sweater,
44:12wherever you get your music legally,
44:14of course,
44:15and go check out Dalton's work,
44:17whether the buck's turning around or not,
44:19he's going to be your guy Dalton it's August,
44:232026.
44:24So this season has come and gone off season.
44:28Next season is coming on the off season.
44:30I'm gonna ask you three questions.
44:31First have the bucks made it out of the east by August,
44:362026,
44:37to get two bites of the apple there.
44:40By a bias included.
44:41Yes,
44:42but bias aside,
44:43it's going to be tough.
44:44But part of me just,
44:45you know,
44:46thinks that I've always been an optimist.
44:48I think they can,
44:49they just have to get healthy.
44:50They're going to have to overcome themselves.
44:52One of their biggest issues is themselves,
44:54whether it's the health or doc rivers,
44:56but that calves game showed me some potential.
44:59And if they can just build off that potential and string together some wins
45:03and kind of realize like,
45:04Hey,
45:05we got two top 75 players on this team.
45:07You're going to have a three-time all-star coming back.
45:10If you can maybe make a trade for a nice defender,
45:14somebody who can bring some athleticism and just maybe get one of your young
45:19guys,
45:20Andre Jackson,
45:21Jr.
45:22Become something to kind of take even a mini leap.
45:25I think there's a good chance that they could make a run even this year.
45:28You know,
45:29it doesn't look likely,
45:30but like I said,
45:31in 2021,
45:32five game losing streak,
45:33five game win streak.
45:34You can turn it on at any time.
45:35So I do think so.
45:37Yes.
45:38Okay.
45:39Well,
45:40I guess I can predict where you're going next to this,
45:41but I think I might disagree with you.
45:43It's August,
45:442026 is Dame Lillard still on the box.
45:46I think so.
45:48I do think so.
45:49I know a lot of people are,
45:50you know,
45:51kind of iffy on that.
45:52I've seen some people say,
45:53Oh,
45:54the buck should trade him and stop.
45:55I don't think that's really going to happen.
45:58I think,
45:59you know,
46:00him and Janice are still working through that chemistry,
46:02but as the season goes on,
46:03that's going to get better.
46:04These are two guys who have kind of talked about forever,
46:06how they like to play.
46:07I think Damian Lillard is,
46:09you know,
46:10still working.
46:11I'm getting his feeling,
46:13but I think he does want to be in Milwaukee because that's going to
46:16give him a chance to compete.
46:18Like there aren't many other situations he can go where the team is
46:22going to still be able to compete after they trade what they do for
46:26him.
46:27There are a few,
46:28but you're not playing with one of the three best players in the
46:31world in all likelihood,
46:32unless,
46:33you know,
46:34the nuggets make some surprise trade,
46:35but I don't see it happening.
46:37I think he's going to stick around.
46:39Well,
46:40I think I can anticipate your answer to this next question,
46:43which I also think you can anticipate.
46:45So stay with your whole chest Dalton.
46:462026.
46:47Is Janice still on the team?
46:50Since I've been covering the bucks,
46:53it'll be five years this month,
46:55November 15th.
46:56This is,
46:57this has been a topic almost every couple of months.
47:00This will surface.
47:01Some Janice quote him saying,
47:03you know,
47:04I want to be a buck until we can't compete anymore.
47:07And all the news outlets will run that.
47:09He wants to be in Milwaukee.
47:11He doesn't want to leave.
47:12And they've done kind of everything to show them that they want to
47:16compete.
47:17A lot of the moves haven't worked.
47:18You know,
47:19the Jay Crowder trade really,
47:20really bad.
47:21It's really come back to bite them trading all those picks.
47:23The draft misses.
47:25They certainly hurt just a lot of the things that they've done.
47:29A lot of the free agent signings haven't really panned out,
47:31but they're trying,
47:33they're doing what they can to win.
47:35And I think it's going to,
47:36it's going to,
47:37this season's going to certainly play a big part,
47:39but he wants to be there.
47:41And as long as he sees that the front office is committed,
47:43he wants to be there and he wants to win.
47:46And,
47:47you know,
47:48they're making trades to,
47:49to help him out,
47:50you know,
47:51with the Damien Lillard trade.
47:52That's a guy he always kind of says he wanted to play with re-signing
47:55Brooke.
47:56That's a guy that he has a lot of chemistry with giving Middleton the
47:59contract,
48:00despite the injury concerns,
48:01like they're doing things to keep him happy.
48:03I know people were talking about his brother,
48:06not coming back.
48:07His brother tore his Achilles.
48:08It really wouldn't have made sense to bring him back on a contract.
48:11I saw that was a rumor floating around out there.
48:13I do think he's going to be there.
48:15I,
48:16you know,
48:17it could be the fan in me,
48:18but I think he's going to be one of those guys that wants to be there
48:19forever.
48:20You can always have the,
48:21Oh,
48:22he might ask out.
48:23I remember that was a big thing with Kobe.
48:25Kobe almost went to the bowls.
48:26Never did.
48:27You know,
48:28they went and then they went and got pow.
48:29As long as you're making the moves to help you contend.
48:32I think he wants to be there.
48:33He doesn't want to go anywhere.
48:35He's always talked about how Kobe's influence of staying with one team has
48:38been a big thing with him.
48:39So I'm known to these media reports.
48:41Honestly,
48:42every time I see one,
48:43Oh,
48:44Janice might ask out.
48:45These teams are looking at him.
48:46Every team's going to look at him.
48:48It doesn't mean they're going to get him.
48:49So I,
48:50I am numb to it.
48:51Honestly.
48:53Well,
48:54I,
48:55I don't know how much I agree with your three takes,
48:57but I appreciate it very much.
48:58I tried to look up the next time the Celtics and the Bucks play and my
49:03computer almost blew up.
49:05I think it's in December.
49:06Does that sound right?
49:07I think it's this month.
49:08I think they played.
49:09It's coming up in a couple of days.
49:11Yeah.
49:12Okay.
49:13So even sooner than that,
49:14we'll get another look at these two teams.
49:16And from then,
49:17then we'll know for sure what happens in August of 2026 until then.
49:22Everyone go check out Dalton's work over at Behind the Buck and at Hoops
49:25Habit.
49:26Go check out Justin's work over at Rookie Wire.
49:27And of course Celtics Wire.
49:28Go check out Alex's work at Divine Sweater.
49:31And I don't know.
49:33Stay golden,
49:34I guess.
49:35Until then.
49:36Thanks PrizePix.
49:37Thanks Game Time.
49:38Thanks Dalton.
49:39Thanks listeners.
49:40We'll catch you next week.
49:41Adios.
49:42Bye.
49:43Bye.
49:44Bye.
49:45Bye.
49:46Bye.
49:47Bye.
49:48Bye.
49:49Bye.
49:50Bye.
49:51Bye.
49:52Bye.
49:53Bye.
49:54Bye.
49:55Bye.
49:56Bye.
49:57Bye.
49:58Bye.
49:59Bye.
50:00Bye.
50:01Bye.
50:02Bye.
50:03Bye.
50:04Bye.
50:05Bye.
50:06Bye.
50:07Bye.
50:08Bye.
50:09Bye.
50:10Bye.

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