Nasa kamay na ng Senado ang Absolute Divorce Bill matapos nitong makapasa sa ikatlo at huling pagbasa sa Kamara. Ito ay sa kabila ng pagkwestyon ng ilang mambabatas sa naging resulta ng botohan sa Kamara nang pagtibayin ang panukalang batas noong May 22.
Sa buong mundo, maliban sa Vatican, Pilipinas na lamang ang walang batas patungkol sa divorce. Kung maisasabatas ang Absolute Divorce Bill, isa ito sa maaaring maging option ng mga mag-asawa na nais ipawalang bisa ang kanilang kasal. Sa Family Code ng bansa, canonical dissolution, annulment at legal separation lamang ang mga legal na paraan na pwedeng maghiwalay ang mag-asawa.
Ang mga dapat malaman tungkol sa divorce at ang magiging epekto nito sa mga pamilyang Pilipino, ipapaliwanag ng Filipino Divorce Lawyer mula Canada na si Atty. Fatima Angeles dito sa #TheMangahasInterviews.
Sa buong mundo, maliban sa Vatican, Pilipinas na lamang ang walang batas patungkol sa divorce. Kung maisasabatas ang Absolute Divorce Bill, isa ito sa maaaring maging option ng mga mag-asawa na nais ipawalang bisa ang kanilang kasal. Sa Family Code ng bansa, canonical dissolution, annulment at legal separation lamang ang mga legal na paraan na pwedeng maghiwalay ang mag-asawa.
Ang mga dapat malaman tungkol sa divorce at ang magiging epekto nito sa mga pamilyang Pilipino, ipapaliwanag ng Filipino Divorce Lawyer mula Canada na si Atty. Fatima Angeles dito sa #TheMangahasInterviews.
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00:00Are you in favor of or against divorce?
00:07What is the implication of this if it is against the law?
00:11For the spouse, their children, and the owner.
00:15We talked to Attorney Fatima Angeles,
00:18a family lawyer in Ontario, Canada,
00:22who has a lot of Filipino clients who are filing for divorce.
00:27She also served in the Philippines for a long time as a lawyer and a member of the Integrated Bar of the Philippines.
00:33Good day, Attorney Fatima.
00:35Good day, Malu. Thank you for your invitation.
00:40Alright.
00:41Attorney Fatima has a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge for us
00:47in the cases she handled, family law and divorce cases in Canada.
00:52But here in the Philippines, people are worried.
00:56Attorney, what is this divorce law?
00:59Will it destroy the family?
01:01Will the sanctity of marriage be destroyed if it is passed by the Senate?
01:08Malu, to begin with, as you said, I am a family lawyer here in Canada.
01:15But for the purpose of this discussion, in the Philippines,
01:18based on what I've read, the divorce bill that passed in the House
01:23has expanded grounds that are not in the existing provisions of the family.
01:28More specifically, the grounds of legal separation became grounds for absolute divorce.
01:33And of course, the expanded grounds, more specifically the five years of separation in fact,
01:41were also used and the irreconcilable defense between the parties.
01:47It's really a case-to-case basis.
01:49It depends on the experience of each spouse.
01:55For the benefit that the spouse gets, aside from the additional grounds in terms of expediency and access,
02:05we can also call it access to justice because to be honest,
02:11it is very expensive for us in the Philippines to file an annulment.
02:18Usually, what spouses use to file the annulment is what is called psychological incapacity.
02:26And most of us know that when it comes to psychological incapacity,
02:33you need to be examined by a psychologist for additional expenses for the spouse.
02:42Aside from that, the process is very long.
02:44So it doesn't really give access to justice to individuals who really need a remedy for divorce.
02:55Before we go there, let's be clear attorney.
02:58What is the difference between a legal annulment or dissolution of marriage by the church?
03:04What is the difference if there is an absolute divorce law?
03:08The absolute divorce law, based on what I read, does not hinge on the specific religion of a person.
03:18We will emphasize the separation of state and church
03:23because in our government, their duty is to give a remedy to their leaders if this is the need of each individual.
03:38In the church, of course, the heads of the church should give guidance to their people.
03:45Nowadays, the debate is divided among faith-based groups.
03:51The religious communities say that the sanctity of marriage is violated.
03:59On the other hand, you said that access to justice is a legislation.
04:04And the feminist groups or gender equality groups are on the other side.
04:12How is it? Will a divorce law actually destroy the family and marriage?
04:18On the other hand, as Congressman Edsel said, to begin with, the marriage is already broken.
04:24Well, there are many aspects to your question.
04:29First of all, in the Philippines, the definition of family is very limited.
04:37For our countrymen, the family is formed by mother, father, and child.
04:48But in reality, the mother and child can also be considered as a family.
04:56It also depends on how each individual considers their family sector.
05:04Okay.
05:05You mentioned earlier the sanctity of marriage.
05:10We will go back to the topic of divorce in the Philippines.
05:15In Article 1 of the Family Code, where the family is defined as marriage rather as a contract and an inviolable social institution.
05:30For me, what that means is that you are violating marriage and your marital obligations are based on parties that perform based on the institution of marriage that has mutual love, mutual trust, respect, and fidelity.
05:54What can be strengthened there is how the husband and wife will balance their marital obligations to each other.
06:04Okay.
06:05So you mentioned love, trust, respect, and fidelity.
06:09In the Absolute Divorce Law, all of those are possible grounds.
06:15You said it was expanded, including not just having a different relationship or having an affair with the spouse, physical violence, mental pressure, or mental harassment, and also long-term separation.
06:39So what are the things that you observe in those who file a divorce?
06:44What is the most frequent trigger for a filer to pursue a divorce?
06:51Because you asked correctly, in our office, 85% of our clients are our fellow Filipinos.
07:00And my observation is usually the caregivers who come to me to file an application for a divorce, they have been separated for a long time.
07:14So their marriage is really over and they need a divorce for their immigration documents to be settled.
07:25Usually for them, they are separated from their spouse, and their spouse who was left in the Philippines has a companion.
07:34But even if they have been separated for a long time and their spouse has a new companion, they still don't want to sign their immigration documents.
07:43For that reason, they come to us to settle their papers.
07:48So the divorce is very important for them to be able to start a new life here in Canada.
07:57So when it comes to filing a case, as you said, our caregivers in Canada, how is the process of litigating your case?
08:08Do they need to have a court here or legal documents to issue?
08:15Aside from the consent of the spouse to release the marriage, the filer, what happens? How is the process?
08:24The process of divorce here is because the Philippines and Canada are signatory to the so-called International Convention on the Service of Judicial Documents, the Hague Convention.
08:36Once we draft the so-called application package, we need to serve it to their spouse in the Philippines via the Central Authority of the Philippines, which is the Supreme Court.
08:51The Supreme Court endorses it to the RTC where there is a jurisdiction where their spouse lives in the Philippines.
09:02So that is the process.
09:04Usually, this process is applicable only if you are not going to tackle the property relations of the spouse.
09:14This is what is called a simple divorce application.
09:17Okay, so a simple divorce application if there is no case, if the property or the property is still in dispute.
09:24And the children.
09:25And the children.
09:27So is there a difference between a contested and uncontested divorce?
09:32Here in Canada, yes, there is a big difference.
09:36A simple divorce, you can just file it if you have nothing to do with the patrimonial property and you have nothing to do with the custody of the children.
09:50Although we use different terms here in Canada, we no longer use the term custody because it's highly adversarial in nature.
10:00What we call it here is decision-making responsibility at parenting time.
10:06But if you add it up, it's also custody.
10:10If the husband and wife are not tackled or not in agreement with respect to custody, child support, spousal support,
10:20and the so-called property relations, they are no longer in dispute, they can proceed via the simple application.
10:29But once they do not agree with any family issues that I mentioned, it is a contested divorce.
10:39Okay, and will it take long?
10:41It will take a long time.
10:43In this process, there is a first appearance.
10:47Usually, it's just with the clerk of court.
10:51They just check the documents, they check if the other party was served properly,
10:58and then there is a settlement conference, first case conference and then settlement conference.
11:04The target of the courts here is as fast as possible, as much as possible,
11:13to have a resolution on the family matters of the two parties that they can reach an agreement and negotiate.
11:23So the trial is a last resort.
11:26Okay, how long is the indicative timetable, the timeframe?
11:31The simple divorce here is usually a few months but of course if the respondent lives in the Philippines,
11:40we already know that if we served, we will go to the Central Authority of the Philippines.
11:48That is beyond our control.
11:50The Central Authority of the Philippines, the Supreme Court, their endorsement in RTC,
11:57they have a sheriff there who physically serves the respondent, the ex-client.
12:05And usually, the return of service comes back to us around two months, the usual timeline.
12:14And then when it comes back to us, we process it again, we call it the divorce set down.
12:21Usually, the simple divorce application, we have the fastest settlement, three months.
12:28The order came out but usually, it depends on the court's docket, it can reach up to eight months to a year or so.
12:36But that is a bit fast if at all because here in the Philippines, the legal annulment,
12:41you said that if the trigger issue of the filer is psychological incapacity,
12:47there are a lot of other issues that need to be evaluated by the medical professional,
12:53there are expenses and the scheduling of hearings.
12:56To be honest, is it expensive?
12:58For example, in my experience in handling cases, of course, they will go to me, their ex is in the Philippines.
13:08When they go to me, they will tell me how much the expenses are here.
13:12They have the option of course to process their annulment there.
13:16If we compare it, it is very cheap here in Canada.
13:21It is cheap and relatively fast.
13:25For us, I know that the acceptance is around 250.
13:32And then for the psychologists, I asked my contemporaries in the Philippines who practice the annulment of the family law.
13:44The psychologists are around P15,000 to P20,000 easily.
13:51They can spend up to P1,000,000.
13:55It is very restrictive for our countrymen who struggle financially.
13:59We also noticed in the stories that we have done, the poor families are not able to afford the cost of divorce.
14:10Senate President Chris Escudero said that one of the things that he would like to add to the House of Representatives,
14:19is that there should be a public attorney's office service.
14:23Is that possible? Although we know that this is just an addition to the overwork and there is a lot of work for the people.
14:33Very doable.
14:35Of course, what I will mention is the setup here.
14:40The setup here in Canada is very ideal.
14:43Here in Canada, you can go through the entire process of divorce where you are self-represented.
14:50You don't even have to engage the services of a lawyer to be able to go through the entire procedure.
14:56However, if the individual wants to file a divorce, there is a duty council and there is also Legal Aid Ontario here in our province
15:13that provides a free service or there is a service that is based on the rate of payment of an individual based on their income.
15:25So it can be free or it can also be based on your income, the rate you will pay in a pound of Canada.
15:37There is also a court fees because the court fees here for the process of divorce is around 800 Canadian dollars.
15:49That can also be waived depending on the income of the individual.
15:54So in a way, yes, in a way it's very doable.
16:02It can be used as an example for the Philippines to follow in order to help our countrymen who are indigent.
16:15According to some research, 7 out of 10 cases of divorce, the filer is a woman.
16:23It doesn't mean that it's only for women.
16:26On the other hand, 3 out of 10 cases of divorce are men.
16:30What is your experience there? Are men and women the ones initiating the divorce proceedings?
16:36It's the same. There is no more or less here because as you know, Canada is a very progressive country.
16:46It doesn't distinguish based on gender.
16:50Interestingly, I have a case where even the judge himself said that when it comes to support,
17:01the gender of the person or party is not considered when it comes to giving support.
17:09The US explains that while there are proceedings.
17:13In other research, they say that the problem is trauma or anger or negative emotions after a divorce proceeding.
17:25Even during the proceedings, it's really harder on the men than on the women.
17:30What is your experience? Is it traumatic or a painful process? More on the men than on the women?
17:39What I can say is, regardless of the gender, to go through separation and divorce, it's really highly imbued with emotions
17:52because you cannot look at it from a black and white perspective.
18:01The reason why a couple separates is because there is no understanding.
18:08The process of divorce is really highly stressful.
18:16The good thing about it is when you go through it, the fact that you were able to face the dark phase of your life,
18:31you can be able to say that you can move on.
18:36And for the spouses, what they are giving as relief is a new beginning, a starting point.
18:43But the impact on the children is that it's been a long time since the children were separated.
18:51What is your observation on that?
18:53First of all, it's a case-to-case basis but it's really based on the divorce cases that I have.
19:02For example, the specific one that I have, of course, without violating my ethical duty to keep the communication privilege and the case confidential.
19:17For example, the two parties don't really agree anymore.
19:22Their relationship is on and off. There is domestic violence involved.
19:27They really need a remedy for the divorce.
19:32You can see that while the two individuals are together who always fight, the children really suffer.
19:40In this case where I really helped my client, I saw that after two years, their child really flourished in school.
19:56Meanwhile, of course while you are doing the pleading, when we first filed the application,
20:05you will describe the state of their relationship and you will emphasize the effect of the abuse on the children.
20:16So for my personal knowledge, the performance of the children in school is really affected.
20:24But after two years, my relationship with my client was good.
20:30He really visited me every now and then, he even brought his ensemada.
20:35When I asked him how his child was doing, he was still an honor student in his school.
20:42So those situations and scenarios prove that divorce is not evil per se.
20:53It's a case-to-case basis.
20:55So it is not possible to conceptualize our law here.
21:03Some say that they don't want a divorce in the Philippines because for the children, they don't want to separate.
21:10And for the children, the difficult situation they are facing is who will take care of them?
21:16Their mother or father?
21:17Here, of course, what I can answer is how the divorce is done here.
21:23Here, the judges emphasize that the maximum contact to both parents is for the best interest of the children.
21:34Regardless of the reason why the couple separated, the focus of WES is always on what is in the best interest of the children.
21:47Usually, it's 50-50.
21:49Especially if there is no allegation of domestic violence or physical abuse of each party.
21:58Usually, the judges here, as much as possible, equal the time of the child for both parents.
22:05The impression of others is that the custody issue depends on the child's age.
22:10For example, below 7 years old, it should be for the mother.
22:13Or if there is a custody issue, the financial capacity is also triggered.
22:19For example, if the mother or father has no job, they should look at how the legal annulment will end.
22:29And if there is a divorce, they should look at the considerations.
22:32The younger the child, it should be for the mother, that's what they say.
22:36Or if there is no financial capacity, one of the spouses should look at the job and the capacity of the children.
22:44For me, that concept is antiquated.
22:48Although I am aware that in the Philippines, if the child is 6 years old and below, it should be for the mother.
22:58And because she is the mother, there is no capacity for the mother to support the child.
23:06It's like she is tied and she is just staying in the marriage.
23:09That is the essence of the law here in Canada.
23:13I hope it is noticed that it is part of the law here in the Philippines.
23:19Here in Canada, once the spouse separates, the income of each party is mandated.
23:31There is a financial disclosure.
23:34There is an automatic order for the two parties to disclose how much they earn, how much their bank account is, and how much their debt is.
23:46Based on that, there is what is called equalization of net family property.
23:52And for example, the woman sacrificed her career, she stayed at home and took care of the children.
24:01Meaning the man really increased his status in his company, he is now earning a lot.
24:09Once they separate, there is what we call a table amount that is in the federal guidelines of child support.
24:19It is based on income.
24:21The government has a formula that this is the amount of child support based on your gross income.
24:33And aside from that, there is also spousal support.
24:39So whether the woman or the man has a higher income, the higher income usually provides support to the child and his ex-wife.
24:50Let's jump in attorney and I just want to see your expert opinion.
24:56The grounds for divorce are really wide.
25:00What is included in the absolute divorce law is domestic or marital abuse under the Anti-Violence Against Women and Children Act of 2004
25:11without prejudice to prosecution of the offending party, whether it is a woman or a man.
25:16Physical violence or grossly abusive conduct directed against the petitioner, a common child or a child of the petitioner, not divorcee.
25:26Physical violence or moral pressure, etc.
25:29But the final judgment sentencing of the respondent or to imprisonment of more than six years, even if pardoned.
25:38Drug addiction or habitual alcoholism or chronic gambling.
25:42Homosexuality of the respondent, etc.
25:45So it's really wide.
25:47Of course, you said before that the usual psychological incapacity is invoked as a reason.
25:56Is this list really super wide?
26:00This list is more than a dozen grounds for divorce in the law.
26:06It's wide but what I can say is clear, it's not because it's there that it's easy to get.
26:14You also have to prove the presence of the requisite to each ground.
26:21It's not because it's there that it's easy for the party to use.
26:26Of course, we have to put our faith in our justice system, our West,
26:33that we have discretion to decide on whether it's believable or if the party can present sufficient proof or evidence that there are grounds that exist in that case.
26:48When it comes to cases like this, it's different.
26:52It means that anyone or several of all these grounds can be invoked.
26:58However, if it's proven in the divorce proceedings, it's something else.
27:03Do you think it's possible?
27:05Because our courts, regional trial court, municipal, up to ACT-10, the dockets are really plugged.
27:14Other than that, it's really hard to have all the documents that you will submit,
27:22to get an affordable lawyer, will this work or what could be the enabling environment that should be fixed?
27:30Even if there is a divorce law, our judicial system cannot support it.
27:36Yes, there are different ways.
27:38Like what I said earlier, I can answer that based on my experience here in Canada.
27:44Okay.
27:46Here, there are so-called specialized courts.
27:51There are really family courts here.
27:53So our judges can set aside a budget to establish a specialized family court in the Philippines.
28:06I understand that the dockets are plugged but our government cannot use that excuse
28:18because we can see the huge need of our countrymen.
28:26The other concern of those who are against divorce, they say that it might encourage sexual liberties or behavior that is unlawful.
28:47What do you think? Does that have a connection?
28:49The reality is whether there is a divorce or not, there is a possibility of that happening.
28:57So in my opinion, we don't need to use that excuse here whether to proceed or push through with a divorce bill or not.
29:14Because it doesn't mean that if there is a divorce, our countrymen will be sexually liberated.
29:23And for now, for young people, the access to all the information that they need and the scope of our sex orientation classes in schools,
29:38I don't think it's enough to be taught.
29:42That's why there are times when our children have more questions than clarity.
29:48So when it comes to the divorce law debate, those issues are closely linked.
29:54How do you think our young people will be prepared if there is a divorce law in the Philippines?
30:01What should they look for in their relationship with their family, etc?
30:05Where else can the efforts of our schools and parents be added?
30:10What I can say is that there should definitely be an education or additional subjects in schools
30:21because we cannot control the access of young people to the internet.
30:27And the most important thing is the family sector.
30:34They should be guided since they are still young.
30:36Aside from their home and school, the parents and teachers should be able to teach their children.
30:45They say that the Philippines is the only country that has no divorce law. Is that true?
30:54Aside from the Vatican, the Philippines is the only country that has no divorce law worldwide.
31:01And I think it's time for our young people to learn how to talk about this.
31:13But our problem is of course it's a numbers game.
31:16In the House of Representatives, although it passed…
31:19The difference is very slim.
31:23Yes.
31:25In the Senate, there are still a lot of stories.
31:29The senators who are against divorce and the qualifiers who are eager to have a divorce law.
31:36But until it's done in the Senate and in the Bicameral Conference Committee and the President signs it,
31:43we still don't have a divorce law.
31:45How long are we going to be left behind in the world?
31:49You said that only the Vatican and the Philippines have no divorce law.
31:52If you remember, we have already passed a number of House bills.
31:56If I'm not mistaken, this is the fifth or sixth.
32:00It's already the fifth Congress.
32:02It's the fifth but we have already passed a number of attempts.
32:07If you can see, there are a lot of abstaining or those who are playing safe.
32:14Our lawmakers really need to stand up and think that this is their obligation to their constituents.
32:30They need to have their stand.
32:33In the upcoming election, they said that this should be included in the election issues.
32:40It's not just the SOGIE bill or the right of single parents or having a divorce law.
32:49Do you think it's right to expect this to be a big election agenda for the candidates and voters?
32:57I hope it's not just an agenda.
32:59I hope this divorce will be implemented.
33:05I hope it will be processed properly and the wordings are very, very important.
33:12They said that the devil is in the details.
33:15The law has just started and the most difficult part is the implementation.
33:22What do you think is the outlook for now?
33:25It seems like it's still a long way to go.
33:28Although, I think it's happening faster in this Congress because in the House of Representatives,
33:35the debate is already in the Senate and if ever there is a bicam.
33:40Do you have hope? Are you hopeful?
33:43I am hopeful.
33:44I am hopeful because my clients are getting closer to us for the divorce.
33:51Of course, they also want their separation in the Philippines to be legal.
33:59It's a challenge for them.
34:02For them, to have a so-called second glory, a lot of people are hoping for a divorce bill.
34:16In truth, Attorney, you mentioned earlier that the Hague Convention is okay.
34:20In truth, Filipino families or spouses can get a divorce outside the Philippines.
34:28The Supreme Court is mandated to actually send the documents,
34:32the subpoenas if it comes from anywhere in the world that has a divorce law.
34:37In truth, it's a short cut.
34:40In truth, it's happening.
34:42We need to strengthen if there is such a request from other courts of other countries.
34:48So what will this law do is just formalize the process.
34:53It depends on the situation of the client.
34:56If you can hear, we have a so-called petition for recognition of foreign judgment.
35:04But it's only applicable if one of the parties is already a foreign citizen.
35:09It's not complicated.
35:13It's relatively cheaper because it's not that hard to prove.
35:19You just need to present a law in another country.
35:22You just need to present the divorce decree and it will be recognized by our courts.
35:28However, if our countrymen filed a divorce here and they are not yet foreign citizens,
35:38when it comes to that, do they still need to go through the annulment proceedings that are long and expensive?
35:44What happens to the spouses who filed a divorce?
35:49Who retains whose surname?
35:52Is it the name of a man or a woman?
35:54Because there are things that need to be amended in the civil registry record.
35:58And even the children, do they retain the name of the father?
36:02Although in the family code, the woman has an option, right?
36:05Retain your maiden name, retain your husband's name, or adopt your husband's name.
36:11That's the common misconception in the Philippines that when you get married, you automatically get your husband's surname.
36:20Women have the right to choose if they will use their surname when they get married or get their husband's surname.
36:30Here in Canada, of course, I can say that the practice here is that when the spouse is already divorced,
36:39the process of changing the surname is very easy.
36:44You just file your certificate of divorce with the application form.
36:49It's like an over-the-counter process.
36:54Here in the Philippines, I believe it's going to go through some tedious steps.
37:01It's like you have to advertise it and there should be no contest when it comes to changing the name.
37:07It's like it's too costly.
37:09And again, it's too expensive.
37:11Especially for those who don't have much to spend on their pockets.
37:16I think it also has an effect because of the school records of the children.
37:22The job or employment records, if it's contested, what's the name?
37:28But to be honest, not all women have the option to retain their maiden surname,
37:36or shift to their husband's surname, or append or attach their maiden name with their husband's surname.
37:44Maybe it's part of the preparation for the woman who might dissolve their marital relationship.
37:57So it's really a lot of work for our lawmakers.
38:01Aside from the grounds that they are expanding,
38:06they should focus on, like what we discussed earlier,
38:12the support for the child and the support for the wife.
38:17Especially like what you mentioned,
38:21those who don't have a job because they have to take care of the child,
38:26they need a law that will strengthen the obligation of the wife who has a bigger income to give to the one who has a smaller income.
38:39So that they are equal and have the same responsibility for the child.
38:46Then for the name change, it should also be included in the law.
38:53We really need to focus on not only the main grounds of the divorce but also the eventual consequences when the wife is already divorced.
39:05So in the end, you said, Attorney Fatima, this is a justice and equity legislation.
39:11It's about having a divorce law.
39:14It's really the last time in the Philippines, aside from the Vatican, that there is no divorce law.
39:20What would you say?
39:22They say it could destroy the family as the basic unit of society and it could have an effect on the development of our country because that is their social structure.
39:34For countries that have a divorce law, should the economy and the state of the country back down?
39:43Because people have that kind of view.
39:45Yes, as you can see here in Canada, it is not surprising and according to the knowledge of everyone, the economy of Canada is really declining.
39:56It can be said that it is a factor but when it comes to divorce, we can see that those who are divorcing are the ones who already went through counseling.
40:10They tried everything they can to fix their relationship but it did not work out.
40:18So those who are divorcing, those are the ones we can say that there is no hope of fixing it.
40:25And for their children, like what I mentioned earlier, my experience is that the condition of the children is getting better when they don't see their parents being miserable together.
40:42So in that small sector of the family, definitely when it multiplies, we can also see the effect on the economy.
40:53Because the children who will have a better environment when they grow up will be a productive member of society.
41:02But what about the mothers-in-law, the in-laws, the aunts and uncles?
41:08Sometimes they are the pressure on the husband to endure for the children.
41:14How can we soften their feelings to give the husband a chance to make a decision without putting too much pressure on that group?
41:26Yes, the most important thing for a husband who wants to divorce is to see what is the effect of their decision on their children.
41:39If they listen to what their children are saying, which is not really, sorry to say, helpful,
41:48then there should be a self-reflection between the husband and wife on what they will give importance,
42:00the words of the family, the extended family, or what they think will help their children.
42:08And for all, you said that there is no religion that focuses on divorce law.
42:14But a good number of our lawmakers will probably be driven by what is the faith issue, what is my religion here.
42:24But how do you convince both the pro and con divorce to look at this legislation as something else,
42:31that it is not a violation of religion, it is not a violation of the family.
42:36What should be the issue that will be the reason on how they will vote, pro or con?
42:43They should really look at their obligation to their leader.
42:49I understand that every person has personal biases, but they have to rise above those biases.
42:59And of course, I also understand the motive of the politicians because when it comes to elections,
43:05their voters will remember what they voted for.
43:11And if their voters do not agree, they may not vote.
43:17Lawmakers should really think about what is best for the majority and not just a few.
43:26This discussion should not be based on personal beliefs or the so-called faith of the people because this is a government discussion.
43:39They may also be afraid because there are churches or leaders of churches who hold a big role.
43:49When it comes to elections, when the candidates endorse, just like in family planning,
43:55the pro-life groups, what do you think we should do? What message can we give them?
44:07They should really think about what is best for the majority.
44:12I understand that we have democracy and we have our own beliefs.
44:18But we should really think about what is best for our fellow countrymen.
44:23We should not look at what will be beneficial for us when it comes to elections.
44:33Okay. So on that note, Attorney Fatima Angeles, thank you very much.
44:38We learned a lot and I hope our listeners,
44:42aside from the fear of good or bad, I hope you appreciate the proposals, the grounds for divorce,
44:53the process, the issues that will happen in the issue of property, conjugal property, matrimonial property of children.
45:03This is not a simple matter.
45:07The division of the property of husband and wife is very important.
45:12It is where the ability of the husband and wife to separate, to support the child while the child is in their power.
45:22Here in Canada, if the child is in someone's power, for example, more than 60% of the time,
45:29the child is with the father and the mother is the one who will support.
45:35So it is very important that the grounds for divorce should not only be the grounds for our law,
45:42but also the property relations of the separated husband and wife.
45:47Because it is where we can say that the future and best interest of their children is at stake.
45:55No one wants to get married and after so many years, file for divorce.
46:02Because our people's minds are not that truncated.
46:07I believe that our countrymen are very wise.
46:13I understand. Actually, our countrymen are getting married late compared to a decade or more than a decade ago.
46:25So I can say in general that people who want to get married have a positive outlook.
46:35They don't plan to get married because they want to separate.
46:39Those who want to separate are the ones who truly felt and proved that there is no other option but to separate.
46:49And this divorce bill will give them hope to fix their lives.
46:56Because usually, those who separate and have no divorce are also with others
47:03and the situation of the family and children becomes worse.
47:08That is the story of our countrymen.
47:10We deny the reality that once the marriage fails, it's okay.
47:16Even if the separation is de facto.
47:20One of my friends said, I hope the marriage has an expiry date.
47:27Like a type of basic negotiation.
47:30There can be an expiry and renegotiation, although of course, that's just a joke.
47:34To put it simply, Atty. Fatima,
47:37what do you think, not just for one religion, there is no specific religion,
47:43there is no specific gender, male or female, can they file for a divorce?
47:49I hope our countrymen will appreciate that there is access to justice through this law.
47:57Based on the needs of my clients, I can say that in the Philippines,
48:06the clamor of the people is strong.
48:09They really need this divorce bill that has a law.
48:13It looks like there is a lot of work to be done.
48:19Property relations are really important because our law is lacking there.
48:26You know, my clients here are Filipino men.
48:32They bring the belief that once they get divorced, it's up to their spouse to take care of their children.
48:39They are surprised here.
48:40Sometimes, the client gets angry with me.
48:42Why would he give child support?
48:46The penalty here is very heavy.
48:50You can be jailed if you don't give child support.
48:52The driver's license is suspended, the passport is suspended.
48:56They get jailed and all their properties are taken.
48:58Even if the person is bankrupt, their obligation to give support is not affected.
49:04That's how it is in our country.
49:06So in property relations, the law looks like it has value,
49:13the child-rearing duty of any partner, right?
49:19Yes, yes.
49:20Yes, if the career of a person is sacrificed, for example, the mother did not get a job.
49:29My God, there is indefinite spousal support until they are separated, until the two are gone, there is still support.
49:39Even the estate, if the court has an order, the estate of the wife,
49:44when she dies, it is still obligated to give support to the wife.
49:49Even if there is a divorce, the child support should be like a shared duty.
49:56Especially if the disparity of income of the two is very vast.
50:02That's fine, I hope it's included in our divorce law.
50:06Because usually, the woman is at a disadvantage, she's just at home.
50:15That situation is very common in our country.
50:18She can't be separated because she doesn't have a job.
50:22That's where the hardship in an abusive relationship starts.
50:26Here, when they are separated, the woman really has support.
50:33And that's also where the children's problems are.
50:36You will be separated, you don't have support, you don't have a job.
50:41So the financial aspect of the divorce is very important.
50:45And the same goes for the husband, who might become a house husband.
50:51Yes, there should be no gender.
50:54Thank you very much and have a good day.
50:56Atty. Fatima Angeles, barrister, solicitor at Notary Public in Ontario, Canada.
51:03Sorry for the inconvenience and keep safe ma'am.
51:07Thank you, thank you Malu.
51:11Thank you, thank you.